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A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Underworld w/ Phoenix Davis
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Ben: [00:00:00] Remember there was an entire Parks and Rec episode about Twilight?
Emily: I don't remember that, but I didn't see very much Parks and Rec in my day.
Ben: There was, it's like, who is it? I think it was Will Forte's the guest star, and he wants Twilight in a town time capsule. And that's like, the A plot of the episode, somehow.
Jeremy: I do remember that. I was like, we just finished rewatching Parks and Rec. I was like, I don't remember that. Pretty
Ben: does it hold up?
Jeremy: good, except for like, the first season, which was always bad.
Ben: yeah, there was nothing there to age, it came out bad.
Jeremy: yeah, it's like, watching it again now The Battle of the Bands, the one where, like, they first introduced Mouse Rat. And the pit is the first one that they're like, we got it, we figured it out, Leslie's not actually a joke, Leslie is the hero of this story and also, Chris Pratt, really funny, um,
Emily: Yeah, oh that's right, he's, yes.
Jeremy: yeah, and
Ben: Well, we get [00:01:00] Well, we talked about, like, where we figured it out that he probably filmed Jennifer's body between seasons one and two. Like, I think I remember we tried, like, actually figuring out that, like, on the timeline, like, when he would have filmed that, and I think that, and I think we figured out that was between seasons one and two he would have filmed his, Jennifer's body.
Jeremy: yeah, I guess he, he does not die in Jennifer's body,
Ben: No, he should have, he doesn't appear enough in Jennifer's body. He's there for, like, three minutes as, like, a cop Jennifer is sleeping with.
Jeremy: sure, sounds right yeah, it's, it's also really weird watching the whole of, Parks and Rec and Andy like walk off screen one day weighing a hundred less or a hundred more pounds and walk on screen the next day like a hundred less pounds. It's very strange.
Ben: Oh, that's, uh, that's that Marvel, that's that Marvel experience, baby.
Jeremy: He just starts wearing very large sweaters so you can't tell that he's an entirely different shape than he was a minute ago. Yeah, wild. Alright, let's [00:02:00] talk about this movie instead.
Emily: yeah, hell yeah.
Jeremy: Oh, I did not write a description of Underworld. I wonder what I'll say.
Marker 1
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Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to Progressively Horrified, the podcast where we hold horror to progressive standards it never agreed to. Tonight, we're talking about the movie that really just divided us between what kind of horror monsters we are. Are you a wet, shirtless horror monster, or are you a pale, shirtless, or are you a pale monster that runs around in lingerie and leather?
Jeremy: That's right. It's Underworld. I am your host, Jeremy Whitley, and with me tonight, I have a panel of cinephiles and cinebites. First, they're here to challenge the sexy [00:03:00] werewolf, sexy vampire binary, my co host, Ben Kahn. Ben, how are you tonight?
Ben: Finally! We are at last doing Nine Inch Nails, the Masquerade movie.
Jeremy: And on that note, the cinnamon roll of Cenobites, our co host Emily Martin. Emily, how are you tonight?
Emily: Beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep beep. Yes. Trent Watch, folks. It's on. We have a Trent Watch. Also in the music, but very, very vaguely, but we'll, we'll get into that.
Ben: Incredibly And I'll get into this Incredible amount of restraint this movie shows, in terms of music and nothing else.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: mean, speaking of Trent, this movie feels like they sampled guitar from a Nine Inch Nails song and fed it through an AI to make the soundtrack and then that's as far as they got. There's no like, there's lots of places in this movie where I'm like, and the lyrics go? No, they're just, [00:04:00] it's just more guitar riff.
Jeremy: Okay.
Ben: okay, let's introduce our last guest so I can start to go absolutely fucking feral over this movie.
Jeremy: our guest tonight, artist in front of the podcast, Phoenix! Phoenix, welcome back!
Phoenix: thank you for having me back. Uh, this movie, as a child of the 2000s, this movie was like a beautiful home cooked meal truly. Thank you very much for, uh, having me on for this one.
Ben: This movie,
Emily: in this one.
Phoenix: Oh
Ben: I Love this movie because this movie came out 2003. you know, I was 13 when it came out I watched it a bunch, like, just as a teenager. This, and, but I hadn't really seen it since, like, being a teenager And I have to say this movie was Absolutely as sexy, as stylish, as badass, and as utterly vapid as I remember.
Jeremy: it's, if this is a home cooked meal, it is the microwaved and flavor dusted home cooked meal. It's just, it's
Phoenix: the terrible brownie and [00:05:00] everything, absolutely.
Ben: This movie is the cinematic equivalent of a Ferrari, but then you look under the hood and instead of an engine, it's a microwave with a with a hot pocket in it.
Emily: God bless it. And
Ben: absolutely! Absolutely,
Emily: to go ahead and say right up here at the top, I will be making some white wolf jokes. Speaking of Masquerade they, but otherwise, when I, when this movie came out, I was in college, very freshly in college, a lot of LARPers around me I couldn't help it, I'm sorry.
Ben: Emily, I want you to know that there's a scene in this movie of Michael Sheen growling and writhing around as he expels bullets from his body, and I immediately thought, Emily's gonna need to lie down watching
Emily: yeah, oh yeah, no, and that's during the, the Trent Reznor, Danny Lohner remix of Judith
Jeremy: okay, I have to talk about the, like, [00:06:00] the people involved in this movie. So it is directed by Len Wiseman, not Paul W. S. Anderson, as you might be inclined to think, uh, given the time and the
Emily: so.
Jeremy: so it is, co written by Len Wiseman as well as Danny McBride. No, not that Danny McBride. I wish.
Jeremy: It would be so much better if it was.
Ben: would love to see that Danny McBride take on Werewolves vs. Vampires.
Jeremy: Yeah, it is also created, like, the world is created, it is written by and starring Kevin Greview, who you may know is also a comic book writer. He is a, there's something so early 2000s comic book writer about this movie, like,
Ben: Oh my god, right? He's
Jeremy: it's just
Ben: badass. I fucking lo I fucking love this guy, though. He's so fucking cool.
Jeremy: yeah, he plays
Ben: Oh, that fucking,
Jeremy: the deepest voice in the history of voices.
Ben: he
Emily: His actual voice?
Jeremy: That is his [00:07:00] actual voice.
Ben: No, shut the fuck
Jeremy: altered in no way. That is the way he
Ben: Amazing. This dude is the coolest motherfucker on the planet.
Jeremy: and I, I, so, I mean, that's like, his casting in there is obvious, like, Len Len Wiseman is directing, but does not sneak in there. Danny McBride sneaks his way into part of the cast as well, so two out of the three writers are also acting in this. Which is the least wild casting choice of anybody in there.
Jeremy: We have Robby G, who you will recognize as uh, I don't know, the, the nervous black character in any, like, British crime drama from the, like, early 2000s and late
Ben: That's where I recognized him from. He's from fucking Snatch! Fucking, yeah, oh my god, this was bothering me the whole time. Oh, okay, he's, yeah, he's from fucking Snatch. Okay, that's where I know him. Okay, I'm good now. I'm not good. I'm gonna be fucking insane this whole episode.
Jeremy: Wentworth, Wentworth Miller. [00:08:00] who plays a doctor who uses a first name and is definitely in this movie.
Ben: Wentworth! The, The sound that came out of my mouth when I remembered that Wentworth Miller is in this movie.
Jeremy: Yeah, so we also have Sophia Miles whose entire job is to run breathlessly into rooms and hide around corners in this entire movie. That is all she does the whole thing. Kate
Emily: for her, justice for me.
Jeremy: for whom this was like a huge breakout role. Like this movie made Kate Beckinsale who she became for the next 10 years and then disappeared.
Jeremy: I don't know, I don't know where Kate Beckinsale is now. Um,
Emily: are. Kate,
Ben: I, I don't know.
Jeremy: this entire movie is just balanced on top of her head. Like she is doing the most that she can to make this work while also doing like a clearly directorial instructed. You're a vampire. You have to sound very serious and cold about everything.
Ben: looks, she is fucking [00:09:00] immaculate in every goddamn frame of this movie.
Jeremy: we have to talk about, also, like, I mean, she does, she looks amazing.
Emily: she looks good. She's, she's bringing it. There is one. Any, anything. Where she is, is having any sort of issue visually is all costume department and that is with that weird leather fucking whatever that holds her top that she has. When
Ben: What? No! Okay, no, I will hear no fucking slander about her incredible leather tank top.
Phoenix: it's really goofy. I love it, but it's, it's a
Emily: don't understand it.
Ben: lives in a goddamn LARP mansion. They don't have t shirts at that fucking house.
Emily: I know, I mean, like, I just thought it was just
Ben: wish, I
Emily: her neck.
Ben: I wish there was just
Phoenix: It was weird.
Ben: I wish there was one vampire in that house just chillin out wearin a Judas Priest t shirt.
Emily: you guys, listen. This is it. Down to the music. This is the scene that the, uh, Key and Peele [00:10:00] sketch takes place, where
Ben: I mean, yeah, yeah. Like, this movie, this is the most unironic distillation of that vibe of vampire. When she walks in the mansion, and there's just twelve vampires in the fanciest fuckin outfits, just doing nothing! Just sitting!
Emily: and
Jeremy: somewhere in this abandoned London that this movie takes place in, because there's fucking nobody on the streets. Somewhere, there is a leather outlet and a fucking Victorian outlet, Victorian clothing outlet next to each other, that this house full of vampires is keeping in business by themselves.
Emily: London fog and international imports.
Ben: is clearly set in Prague, Hatton. Yes!
Jeremy: Okay, I have to, there's there are three, four more people that I need to talk about that are in this movie. In the fucking wildest casting choices in the world, we have Michael Sheen and Bill Nighy on opposite sides of this as the like, sexy, charismatic [00:11:00] number one vampire and number one werewolf. Somehow,
Ben: Michael Sheen, the fucking GOAT in this movie!
Jeremy: Michael Sheen is doing his damnedest. Bill Nighy is also present. Like,
Phoenix: Yes, this is true.
Ben: see Bill Michael Sheen. Across the board, fuckin Underworld, Tron Legacy, fuckin Prodigal Son, Good
Emily: He was a Tron legacy.
Ben: Oh, yes he was! He was the, he was the cracked the fuck out nightclub owner who betrays them.
Emily: Oh,
Jeremy: So like, some of the wild lore shit that Bill Nye has to deliver in this, I can just see him sitting at home with this script, like, making a jerk off motion as he's reading it, like, just,
Ben: But here's the thing, Bill Nighy, hey, it's enough, he still hams it the fuck up, he's just like, making weird, shaky, riot y motions, at one point he just starts like, [00:12:00] biting the air,
Emily: Yeah,
Phoenix: He's chillin with the scenery!
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: it's amazing, like, like, Bill Nighy, I cannot imagine he gave a single shit about any part of this script and yet cared enough to be like, Yes, make me the gooiest fucking corpse that has ever been on,
Jeremy: the
Ben: movie
Jeremy: wildest thing about this movie is, like, how crazy that it is that the two of them are in it. And are doing the absolute most with what they have, and then you have the complete charisma vacuums that are Scott Speedman and Shane Brawley in this
Emily: Yep.
Ben: my god,
Jeremy: sitting there, absorbing any momentum this movie might have.
Jeremy: Like, they're just, anytime they're on screen, it's like, oh, right, Kraven's in this scene, I guess.
Ben: Craven, I, Craven is both the worst character and the worst acting in the movie. I'm sorry Shane Broly, some offense.
Phoenix: It [00:13:00] was such an important, like, I feel like it was sort of the everything's moving because of this character, but like, yeah, literally, like, every time he was on screen, I was like, my god.
Jeremy: Yeah, he's,
Phoenix: man, we move
Ben: Someone, like, Scott Spearman, it had to have been that he was in, like, A modeling shoot, or an advertisement, and so it's like, I, now those are eyes a vampire could get lost in for days, and just cast him on the spot.
Emily: Yeah. No, he was very objectified in this film. And you know,
Ben: damsel in distress at every turn, like he is, Scott Speedman is the female lead of the movie.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: yeah, he is,
Emily: He's a supporting role.
Jeremy: he is an absolute, like, vacuum of characteristics whatsoever. Like, there is nothing about this character, period. Like,
Ben: I, I never thought I would be watching a movie and be like, Damn, I could really go for the acting talent of Paul Walker right now.
Jeremy: he is, fucking Scott Speedman is what's in the [00:14:00] suit, like
Ben: I, I had to,
Jeremy: in Pulp
Ben: R, RIP, but I had to go for the appropriate 2000s comparison.
Emily: No, but we say that with affection.
Ben: Yes. Hundred percent.
Jeremy: Yeah
Jeremy: he's just so uninteresting, but like, next to Shane Brawley, he comes out looking like a fucking champ, because like, Shane Brawley should be He should be greasy and like, he should be so hateable. This should be like a fucking low key character. Like, you should be, come out of this like, him being
Ben: Oh, Hiddleston
Jeremy: being the worst.
Jeremy: If Hiddleston would have been in this movie, everybody would still remember the character of Kraven. Unfortunately, Hiddleston is not in this movie.
Ben: Like, he's not even like, oh, he's so bad, like, I hate him. It's just like, cause when he's on screen, I'm like, ah, no, I don't want to look at you, I don't want to hear you. Can we just get to when you're no longer in the movie?
Emily: [00:15:00] Yeah. Phoenix. What did you say about his shirt?
Phoenix: Oh, that shirt he wears for the party.
Ben: no, I,
Phoenix: it and I was like, why is he wearing pieces of sandpaper? Like, I want to eat dry while looking at that. I hate
Ben: oh no, I, I, I had a, I had a note about his shirt I said he looks like, he looks like the goth version of an abusive 1970s country star manager.
Phoenix: A little bit. Yeah. Uh huh. Uh huh. It looks
Jeremy: It's just, it's like, they need another character there. And
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Kraven
Phoenix: Like,
Emily: They should have just had like a cardboard cutout of Tom Hiddleston and they'd be
Ben: I, I, I have to imagine it was supposed to be Victor from the beginning, and they were like, we can afford Bill Nighy for half the shoot.
Phoenix: It was really funny because he's so, like, uncharismatic that, like, I was watching him and, like, he would say things to Selene that were, like, a little bit, like, you know, like, a little bit, like, My Queen coded, and I was, like, Oh, he's totally one of those characters. Then I forgot he was there. [00:16:00] And then, like, at one point, he literally says, So she will be my queen.
Phoenix: And I was, like, Oh, he was supposed to be doing that. I just
Ben: Oh yeah, no, he's like, of course. Full on fucking m'lady ing.
Phoenix: He's so, but he can't
Ben: the, the,
Phoenix: to this, like he's trying his best, it's just not happening.
Jeremy: when Scott Speedman opens that fucking door and he shoots him like three times, I was like, I too forgot Kraven was there. That makes sense. It's
Phoenix: They opened the door.
Ben: He wasn't surprised about getting shot, he expected that, it was the Kraven part that was the shock.
Jeremy: It's like those fucking aliens in that season of Doctor Who, where like, you don't remember they exist as soon as you look away from them.
Ben: It's like when I watched Lord of the Rings on acid and anytime Merry and Pippin appeared for two and a half movies.
Emily: That's too bad
Phoenix: is too bad. They're fun, but yeah, no, I totally see how that's possible
Emily: yeah, that's true. That's true.
Ben: It's more the fact that, like, those movies are so long that, like, you will [00:17:00] check in with a character literally once an hour.
Phoenix: Yes. Yeah, it's, there's a lot going on, it's long,
Ben: And I was incredibly on acid. Um,
Phoenix: that would not help with that.
Emily: like a nice though, though, like I feel like
Ben: oh, my, look, it was a wonderful birthday party for my friend.
Emily: Oh, awesome. Yeah, Lord of the Rings I feel like would be cool. Pretty chill, you know, it's not too
Ben: was great. Again, I have heard people say, like, I took psychedelics and I came away with, like, A deeper understanding and connection to humanity and the world. And I'm like, I never had that shit, but I do have a deeper understanding and connection to Lord of the Rings now.
Emily: Sometimes that's what it takes to have that deeper understanding with Lord of the Rings. That's why so many hippies love
Jeremy: me and
Ben: I'm not gon I'm not gonna lie, there was a certain element of like, I knew I loved these movies, but I get them now.
Emily: Scott Speedman. All I can say about him in this movie is that someone, whoever was directed, like, whoever was trying to figure out his [00:18:00] whole, like, direction in the movie was like, just stand there, and then we will shoot this to either make you look like, to make you look like a grunge star, and that's it.
Emily: Like, there's mostly, sometimes it was Trent Reznor, sometimes it was Gavin Rosdale. They certainly made him wet, and
Jeremy: what if they replaced him with a puppy? I'm just saying, like,
Phoenix: No, it would have been better.
Jeremy: what
Emily: would have been much better.
Ben: feel like they were trying to go for that Golden Retriever energy, but, oh boy, does Scott Speedman at this time not have the range.
Emily: I
Ben: I do b I do believe he I do believe Scott Speedman has very much, like, having seen him in more recent stuff, he is a hundred percent, like, really grown and developed as an actor, but, this movie is
Phoenix: I'm not sure if the man's knew, like, if that character actually understood anything that was happening, like,
Jeremy: even
Phoenix: all, like,
Jeremy: of it,
Phoenix: No, even at the end, he was like, what's going on? Like, I have a headache. My tummy hurts.
Jeremy: for somebody who is [00:19:00] like a, a lore nerd, the lore in this is so fucking dense. There's
Ben: Well, it's crazy how much Lord is, 'cause it's all just vampires versus werewolves
Emily: Yes, it's vampires versus werewolves, but there's so much lore, but then the presentation of the vampires and the werewolves on the screen is really confusing because you can't tell who's a vampire and who's a werewolf because they're all wearing dresser coats and holding guns that have way too many bullets.
Ben: and they all go and the,
Jeremy: are there no female werewolves?
Phoenix: Nah, not that I
Ben: No, we did not. We did not get any
Emily: I think I saw one.
Ben: We get no female. We get no female werewolves and each side gets one black guy each.
Phoenix: one, you gotta
Ben: One. One. And Victor Victor has an Asian hench vampire, and that is the extent of our, like, of our diversity in the movie.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, our diversity is, there's basically two types of people, pale ones and wet ones. Like,
Phoenix: Pale and wet is often the case.
Jeremy: that's where Scott [00:20:00] Speedman's character is so important, because he is pale and wet.
Phoenix: That's true,
Ben: HE'S THE HYBRID!
Phoenix: cause he's
Ben: LIKE, IN THIS MOVIE, THEMATICALLY, IT ALL COMES TOGETHER!
Phoenix: symbolic.
Ben: THIS MOVIE IS NOTH THEMATICALLY, THIS MOVIE IS NOTHING!
Phoenix: This movie is
Emily: or like Love
Jeremy: like, mythology of there being two vampire covens that have separated out, and there's Emilia and this other group of vampires that we only see on this train before they all get murdered,
Ben: I cannot emphasize
Jeremy: very important, that they're somehow reuniting at this point, and bringing the vampire lord that we never actually see in this movie Marcus, is it?
Jeremy: Um,
Ben: He's the main he's the main villain of the sequel.
Jeremy: Yeah, that they're bringing, they're supposed to be bringing him back and like, I feel like this whole, like, thing with all that going on is given so little attention in the movie.
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: Oh,
Jeremy: like, oh wait, this is like a big thing? Okay.
Ben: Uh, he is
Jeremy: Bill Nighy has to come out and be [00:21:00] like, For a thousand years, nobody has ever broken the chain.
Jeremy: We, there are three of us, and you bring one of us out every hundred years, then you swap us out like Pokemon, you give the other two to Nurse Joy, and like, I'm just,
Ben: This is where we needed a Kieran G Sorry. Yeah. This is where we needed the Hickman style info page detailing, like, the, like, the vampire lords and how their tree and how their chronology works. Also, Emily uh, Tony Curran, plays, the villain in the sequel.
Phoenix: Wow, somebody that Emily used to look up. That's rare.
Emily: I mean, I'm not, my, my
Phoenix: Repertoire.
Emily: Okay. Yeah. My, my repertoire, uh, is very, very specific to a certain kind and time of movie.
Phoenix: Okay, understandable.
Jeremy: all the mononymous characters in this movie, especially, too, is so funny to me, they're so like, action figures, like, that we've got
Phoenix: [00:22:00] Absolutely.
Jeremy: Lucien, Craven, Singe Raze,
Phoenix: Soul ridden.
Ben: Again,
Jeremy: Rigel.
Ben: 2000s comic book energy of this movie is off the fucking charts. Like, I talked about Malignant feeling like a late 90s, early 2000s comic book that never was. I mean, this was literally an early 2000s movie by an early 2000s comic book writer.
Phoenix: The, the names in this movie really do feel like, like, I feel like I use the same name generator as them, like for real, it's like, Exceedingly cartoonish, and like, honestly, for the level of brainpower this movie's on, I think it just needs to be action figures hitting each other. That's where it's
Ben: What this movie always reminded me of is an Xbox first person shooter,
Phoenix: yes.
Ben: where everyone has their everyone has their
Jeremy: up and start running along the walls and she just has to shoot all of
Ben: she's just got all that, yeah, exactly, oh my god, yeah, [00:23:00] and she's got her special silver bullets, and also their special sunlight bullets, and whips, and special fuckin silver shuriken, the whi the fuckin whips, remember when that guy just fuckin
Jeremy: That guy is such a, like, fucking level boss. Like, the whips have not come up at any point up until then. And then, like, they're fighting and the guy's like, let me throw off my jacket and here's my giant fucking whips! It's like Wait, what? How is that gonna be? How is that supposed to kill a
Ben: also, once you get the backstory that the werewolves were slaves to the vampires and the werewolves rebelled. I mean that's the thing. If this movie does have themes, which it's, I think it's trying to, part of the problem is that if you take it to its natural conclusion, the message is biracial kids have superpowers.
Emily: Jeremy.
Jeremy: last half hour of this movie drove me nuts. Because the two leads find out, via inherited [00:24:00] flashbacks, that like, the, that all of this started because the werewolves were enslaved, and the vampires who they've been working with are actually the bad guys. And Selene finds out that she was turned into a vampire by the guy that actually murdered her family, as opposed to the werewolves she thought murdered her family, which is her entire reason for going around killing werewolves throughout this movie.
Jeremy: But, she doesn't stop killing werewolves at that point. She just keeps murdering every fucking werewolf that comes within line of vision with her. She just, like, continues to mow them down, despite now knowing that they are the ones in the right, that they were enslaved, that she should By all rights, be working with them against,
Ben: As much as.
Jeremy: bad guys.
Ben: I love every second of Kate Beckinsale in this movie. Selina as a character is, like, fucked up. Like,
Phoenix: Bad person.
Ben: we introduce her going, My main purpose in life is to do, like, a, like, a genocide. But I'm almost done [00:25:00] genociding and now I'm sad I'm not gonna be able to genocide anymore.
Phoenix: Insane first line. I was like, I fell back into my chair and went, wow, geez, like,
Ben: that, I get it, that is her first lines in the movie.
Emily: Yeah, and here's the thing, folks. Now, you see the vampires. Vampires are all about purity and stuff like that. They seem pretty fascist and pretty, like, elitist and all this kind of stuff. Yeah, that sucks. But then, like, the werewolves have a fucking, like, Joseph Mengele fucking German doctor
Ben: They sure do. There is a were This is a movie I love this movie. This is a movie that not only has a werewolf mad scientist, it also features werewolf cops.
Emily: Those were werewolf cops.
Ben: Yes.
Phoenix: there's no way to tell.
Emily: I didn't know if they were
Ben: Well, part of the problem is that we know vampires have, like, fangs and manicured nails, but then a lot of the werewolves go into, like, Half werewolf state, [00:26:00] which also gives them fangs and claws.
Phoenix: The worst part too, is that they both have like blue eyes when they're activating their like magical powers. So it was like, no way. There's like no Teen Wolf style, like eye color chart for me to follow, which would have been very helpful in this
Ben: It would've been, oh no, like vampires got
Emily: has black eyes, that's
Phoenix: No, that was the one special one.
Ben: It would have been useful if it would have been like, yeah, vampires have blue eyes and werewolves have fucking lichens. I'm not, I'm calling them fucking werewolves.
Emily: Call them werewolves because lichens, that's what you get on a tree.
Ben: see just someone on fucking like, or fucking Myspace being like, they're not werewolves, they're lichens. And I'm like, I'm gonna fucking shove you in a goddamn locker.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: I love that like, there's two things in this movie that I, I love just for how dumb they are, which is like, our actual, our introduction to
Ben: my [00:27:00] list is way longer.
Jeremy: like these are top two for me, because there's a lot of them, but our introduction to Lucien, where like, hears werewolves fighting from a distance, and we, we get zoomed into this like werewolf fight club where they're like beating each other up, and fuckin Michael Sheen walks in as, as Lucien, And basically, like, breaks up the fight with like a Reese Darby level, we're werewolves, not swearwolves.
Jeremy: Like, like, like, that's the energy he's giving at that point, is like, uh, uh, uh, don't fight, guys. We're civilized werewolves.
Ben: when Michael Sheen walks on the screen with that hair, none of us were ready for it.
Phoenix: No.
Jeremy: it's wild. And then the other thing is, getting to the end of the movie, And the like multiple climaxes of this movie. Each being more disappointing than the last [00:28:00] is like when finally like Michael gets trans, he gets Vampire plus werewolf and turns into Blue Man, like
Ben: Wait, he was in a fire pit with a walkie talkie!
Emily: Was he blue?
Jeremy: Vampire
Emily: I thought he was black.
Ben: No, he was His eyes were black! The rest of him He was fu He
Emily: gray. He was gray. He was like,
Ben: He was That motherfucker was a goddamn Veruca Salt Blueberry lookin
Emily: was not that blue.
Jeremy: he's very blue. He's
Ben: so
Phoenix: This whole movie is blue.
Ben: so blue!
Emily: He
Phoenix: It's the color
Emily: color.
Jeremy: Oh, God. I mean, everything in this movie is
Emily: my models.
Ben: Yes!
Jeremy: through, but he is especially blue. And, um, yeah, that's fucking wild. And that they spend whole movie building up how terrifying Marcus is. Or not Marcus, but, uh, fucking Victor. And that she, like, kills Victor by jumping at him from behind with a sword [00:29:00] and cutting his head in half.
Ben: had a real, it had a real bullet, my only weakness energy
Emily: Yes. Also, it's anime. It's like, I can't, he got an anime death and I appreciated that. I was like, got you guys. I see you. You see me. We see each other. Like, he, I mean, it would have been cooler if it was like half his whole body, like in fucking Interview the Vampire, but
Jeremy: What if there had been a sword fight up to that point?
Phoenix: That would have been nice. Well,
Jeremy: her, like, coming into the middle of him murdering the other guy and just being like, One jump, one slash. I've never wielded a sword in this movie up to this point, but
Ben: thing I can think of is that they watched, like, the sword fight between Blade and Deacon Frost and were like, Well, we can't do that. But
Phoenix: especially like the fact that they can't do that, but, um, like, oh yeah, because she's just sitting there off screen, like, I guess she's just reeling thinking about like, oh my God, my whole life is a lie. But like, it's been like 20 [00:30:00] minutes and you're like, boyfriend's getting his ass pummeled by like this guy.
Phoenix: Could you get up, baby? It's like a sword fight would have been
Ben: this movie is, I mean, this movie is wild. There's a whole sequence where Scott Speedman is at the LARP mansion, Fucking runs away! Sticks around for 20 minutes, and then just goes back to the LARP mansion.
Phoenix: why didn't she question that? She just went to the gun range and she was all like, hmm. I wonder where that guy went. I'm gonna blow off some steam.
Ben: movie is fucking
Emily: It really should have been a puppy.
Phoenix: It should have been a puppy.
Emily: I don't care. Like, I could do without making him look like he's in happiness and slavery video and fucking Woodstock 94, like Trent Reserve
Ben: For the level of just exposition that's dumped on him, that he does not react to, he might as well have been a
Emily: He should have been a wolf. Like, he should have just been a wolf. And they're like, we found this wolf. It's like the first wolf. And then she, I mean, it couldn't be like a, a romance or whatever, but there was absolutely, there was like negative chemistry. There [00:31:00] was negative chemistry with anyone on screen,
Phoenix: Anti chemistry.
Emily: each other in the beginning.
Ben: It's literally like, he saves her from drowning, and she's like, I have feelings for you for the rest of the franchise.
Jeremy: But it's like, the moment that they kiss,
Emily: yes.
Phoenix: that's the case.
Jeremy: felt like, Oh, are you, are we kissing now? Like, is that,
Ben: It's so funny, when you get to like, Underworld 4, and they build it, and it's like, Selene and Michael, the greatest love story of vampire kind. It's like, this is, it's nothing.
Emily: That, that is a different Michael.
Ben: Yes.
Phoenix: Is this a like a hidden world magic system or is it commonly accepted that these like vampire and werewolves are just like a reality? I can't tell
Emily: They're around
Ben: no, I think it's hidden world. Cause like, they always
Emily: called Underworld.
Phoenix: Yeah, but,
Ben: because the news reports in the beginning aren't like, Hey, vampires and werewolves were having themselves a [00:32:00] tussle.
Ben: It was just like, fuck, mass shooting.
Phoenix: know, that's fair.
Ben: that's where we get the America part of Proghatan. I
Phoenix: be fair, I literally put in my, uh, which this is a little embarrassing. I couldn't tell that like, Lucian was a werewolf until like an hour and 30 minutes into this film where I was told and then I was like, oh. That makes more sense now. Uh, but like, in the thing, like, it takes like a half hour for anyone to do something supernatural in any of these fight scenes.
Phoenix: And it's like when Lucien like forces the bullets out of himself. And I was like, or, you know, besides just turning into a werewolf, but like that's, I couldn't tell them apart before that.
Ben: say, I will say, one thing I will give this movie credit for we are now, again, more than 20 years after this movie, this is the early 2000s when bad CGI was being used very irresponsibly across the industry that werewolf transformation effect, more than 20 years later, still looks fantastic.
Emily: Totally. Yeah, this movie does have good looking [00:33:00] werewolves. Now,
Ben: Like, this movie looks good, like, this is a very well shot, movie with
Phoenix: Well oiled.
Ben: props, costumes, set design, cinematography, lighting, like, at a very technical level, this movie is very well done, Like, it's a really good looking movie,
Emily: does look good and it is consistent. it's like the Matrix in that, you know, it has a thing that it does and it does that thing well.
Ben: and very much so, like, this movie is entirely style over substance, but it's so committed to its style, and its style is so engaging that, like, just, like, this movie is pleasant to watch just on, like, a visual level.
Emily: Yeah, it's not, well, what I would say is that it's visually not really challenging, except for the part where you try to keep the werewolves and vampires separate.
Ben: Oh, you're never gonna fucking do that! That shit ain't never happening!
Emily: [00:34:00] yeah, yeah, you're just like, what's that movie where the British guys shoot stuff?
Emily: not Snatch, that one's a Punch. What's the one that, uh, um, the one
Ben: Lawrence of Arabia.
Emily: Sure, whatever, anyway but it, so it's the, Lock, Sock, and Two Smoking Barrels. Yeah, well, I was also, I was thinking of a different one, but Lock, Sock is actually a better one, but that's the one that Snatch is based on, right?
Jeremy: That's the one that comes after Snatch. It's the next Guy Ritchie movie.
Emily: okay, my, uh, yeah, I don't,
Ben: Oh, Statham. How fucking good is Statham in Snatch?
Emily: very
Emily: good,
Jeremy: How good is Brad Pitt in Snatch,
Jeremy: frankly? Like,
Ben: His best role. Straight up his best fucking role. Oh, anyway, I could do a whole episode about Snatch.
Emily: We'll talk about Snatch
Ben: We'll do that off the air. That'll be our next Patreon bonus.
Emily: we'll talk about, we'll
Ben: We're going through the complete filmography of Guy Ritchie. And by complete filmography, I mean the first two.
Emily: yes,
Jeremy: I
Emily: the end,
Ben: The end.
Emily: Yeah, no, this movie is basically, like, you have [00:35:00] your two Matrix teams, and then One of them has light bullets and one of them has dark bullets, and it's like Ikaruga, but with Matrix themes, the end. Like, that's it. And that's
Phoenix: just been Splatoon. There we go. You just get your different, you know, you got your, your silver, you got your UV. And there we go. you can in it.
Phoenix: That's true. No, no, you're right.
Phoenix: Just make it grayscale. Mm
Ben: on its sleeves. It, it, straight up, it wants all of, like, the style and template of, like, Vampire the Masquerade. It wants its protagonist to have, like, a whole lot of, like, Lara Croft, and because Tomb Raider was big. Like, Matrix had come out just a few years ago, so yeah, I have to make sure everyone's wearing, like, Matrix leather and doing all the good Matrix fighting.
Emily: Mm hmm.
Ben: again, it's not to its detriment, like, it's, like, it does all these well, but, like, it's very much just, like, you can see all the puzzle pieces.
Emily: Yeah. And [00:36:00] apparently the Perfect Circle song that they play while Lucien is doing his, like, weird bite bullet situation is in every movie. Like, there's a version of that in every movie. Like, that's the theme, which I'm like That's weird, but okay. Like, I mean, of all of the post 90s metal stuff that they, like, post 90s alternative that they could use, I'm not using the term new metal because I respect, well, I don't know if respect is a term.
Emily: I appreciate,
Ben: We can respect Perfect Circle.
Emily: yeah, I know. Perfect circle's good. And, like, the, the fact that it's not like all Powerman 5000 or whatever, or like, what the fuck is the other one?
Ben: uh, Bubbleflex?
Emily: Sure. I love the Boba Flex with the milk tea.
Phoenix: Mm hmm.
Ben: that is a real one, I did not pull that one out of my ass, that is a real example. Oh.
Emily: I believe, I believe you.
Ben: but,
Jeremy: the one Chuck Norris used to do the commercials for, right?
Ben: I mean, as much as this [00:37:00] movie is, and again, we've talked about how, again, anyone who says the 2000s doesn't have its own fuckin aesthetic, fuckin wrong. So fuckin wrong. We've covered a lot of aggressively 2000s movies, this is very much one of them. But one thing that I do commend it for that sets it apart from stuff like the first Resident Evil movie, or that Jet Li movie, The One, These movies that, yeah, fuck,
Emily: 2, really.
Ben: yeah, are like fucking triple acts, like these movies that truly could not help themselves and just put, and just have like, wall to wall, this like, host grunge, slash, you know, slash nu metal, that has aged so laughably now, and not that Underworld doesn't have any of it, but it's a lot more restrained compared to its contemporaries, like again, there's that, again, we get the song [00:38:00] when Lucian is sexually expelling bullets out of him, and again, we get Perfect Circle, again, one of the better bands of that, so if you're gonna do it, fuck yeah, Perfect Circle.
Jeremy: Listen, buddy, I still got the Daredevil soundtrack, okay?
Ben: you know what I'm fuckin talkin about. You know what I'm talkin about.
Jeremy: That's, how we all learned about Evanescence.
Ben: the one, yeah, the one literally ending with Papa Roach's last resort playing while Jet Li fights on a burning pyramid.
Phoenix: so good.
Emily: I just want to say something really quick, just for everyone to, every, all of our listeners, and I'm sorry to interrupt, but it's gonna be quick, Blade came out before The Matrix, I just want you to, remember, I want people to remember this, because,
Ben: and
Emily: yes, we credit The Matrix for a lot of things, but we also should credit Blade, because
Ben: Oh, 100%.
Emily: Anyway, continue.
Ben: Well, just that, like, it shows up there, it shows up in, um, you know, in a diegetic way when the cops, like, intentionally play it loud to drown out, Michael's [00:39:00] screaming and the credits, but, eh, fuck it, the movie's over, that doesn't really count, like, as much as this movie, this movie is able to very much have the vibe and the atmosphere of those songs without actually beating you over the head by playing those songs non stop, like a lot of movies of this era did.
Emily: Yeah, no, I was really, like, when I saw it in the theater and I heard that, that track kinda come in as he was, like, doing his weird writhing dance, and I was like, hell yeah!
Ben: that's the thing, is
Ben: that it actually has impact! Cause it's something different in the movie, like, You know, it is mostly a film score, so when it does shift, it actually carries weight, and stands out.
Emily: Yes. Do you wanna recap the movie, Ben?
Ben: Yeah, let's do that shit!
Emily: now that we've talked about it for an hour
Ben: Look, I told you I was gonna go fuckin feral on
Emily: Oh yeah, no, I fuckin warned this. I'm 100 percent here for this.
Ben: Alright, recap time. So yeah, [00:40:00] we started with our classic narration, you know, Celine does her fuckin fantasy action movie narration. Deep lore. It's vampires versus werewolves. It's just like, there's so much backstory, and so many characters, and it's just fucking vampires vs werewolves.
Emily: it's What it is, is just
Emily: them being like, this isn't White Wolf, this isn't the White Wolf lore, so you guys gotta forget that, this is a different thing.
Emily: Okay, go. Yeah, new thing.
Ben: Anyway, vampires are winning, werewolves are almost extinct, and Selina's big sad she can't do no genocide no more. Again, what a fucking character introduction, I can't, and like you said, Jeremy, She does, her arc isn't even, I was wrong to do genocide. GENOCIDE? Her arc is just, I like this, I have a crush on this boy now.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: It's okay. He's not a real werewolf. He's a blue man from the blue man group.
Ben: I think, I guess her arc is like, she went from wanting to kill werewolves to now she's okay [00:41:00] killing werewolves and vampires.
Emily: I mean, she'll kill everybody and now
Emily: her dark passion Is
Ben: The degree to which Selene's arc in the franchise going forward mirrors Milo Jovovich in Resident Evil is fucking hilarious. Yes?
Emily: That's why people get them mixed up.
Ben: They just get more and more superpowers to every move. It's fuckin great. Meanwhile in Prag hattan, werewolves are trying to kidnap Scott Speedman, because again, he's got them eyes, you could just lose yourself in for days.
Ben: Selina and the werewolves have a big fun mass shooting, where everyone uses their special Xbox guns at each other, and Scott Speedman gets away, and Selina's like, Oh, I think there's a lot of werewolves, and then they're up to werewolf stuff. Again, we meet the werewolf leader, Lucian, who is Not dead, despite the narration telling us he's dead.
Ben: And as we discussed, he's Michael Sheen and he's the fucking goat. Celine goes back to her mansion where all the vampires live, and the current leader of the [00:42:00] coven, Craven, coven Craven, ugh. Tongue twister is mad at Celine because, he's just a shithead. Craven sucks. Maybe he had motivation, but I, I tuned out.
Ben: Anyway, Celine
Emily: for
Ben: Craven, right? Like who was, who make that, it was like.
Emily: Yeah, Bill Nighy, why did you pick a guy named Kraven to be like your, your
Phoenix: You should have known.
Ben: have you know it's actually Oliver Craven IV.
Emily: he still decided to go by Kraven as his vampire handle.
Phoenix: That's a red flag, that's several, that's a whole shop of red flags.
Ben: And again,
Ben: the
Phoenix: palette.
Ben: conflict at the moment is Selene wants to do atrocities to werewolves and Craven is like No, or actually, like, fine, but not you, someone who's not so murder happy, can go genocide the werewolves for a second. But Cillian's mad, so she keeps investigating, and she realized that the [00:43:00] werewolves were after Scott Speedman, and she goes to get him herself.
Emily: Wait, was Kraven the right the whole time?
Ben: No, because he was working with Lucian to engineer a whole murder plot. he knew Lucian was in fact up to something because he was working with him and they were going to do a whole murder thing to put Kraven on top.
Phoenix: He was trying to keep her out of it because she's the detective who's so entrenched with her job that nothing will stop her.
Emily: Right, okay, because I was like, is Kraven based?
Ben: No,
Phoenix: if she was off the force, give me your badge and gun. Like that was
Phoenix: the vibe.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: it was more, like the, dirty cop trying to get rid of, the detective sniffing too close.
Emily: Yeah, although Lucien, like, teaming up with Lucien I mean, Lucien's based, right? Right.
Ben: Lucian's very base. Well, no,
Phoenix: no, because he's got a Nazi scientist working for him.
Ben: does have a Nazi sign. He did, that's true. Lucian did do an Operation Paperclip. He sure
Emily: [00:44:00] Yeah, he, yeah.
Phoenix: keep going like, oh, but at least he was, wait a second.
Phoenix: I don't like any of these bitches.
Ben: I do love how part of his plan is just go through the phone book and kidnap everyone named Corvin and just test their blood.
Emily: like Sleeping Beauty. Kill everyone that is a woman.
Phoenix: Quickly. It's the only way.
Emily: Destroy everyone that,
Ben: it's a good thing all of the werewolf cops are in, like, I guess are in on it. Like, the detectives are also werewolves so nobody's going like, Hey, how come everyone named Corvin is showing up dead?
Phoenix: Listen, there's not a single human being in this whole movie. You can't convince me. All right.
Ben: Not true! We're about to meet the one human being because Michael works at a hospital and we get to see baby faced Wentworth Miller wearing a Muppet wig. Wentworth, if that's your actual hair, I'm really [00:45:00] sorry.
Emily: I'm sorry to hijack this. Jeremy sent me a, uh, a little snippet here. And this is something that I had forgotten about. Because I was so aggravated that all of my LARP friends were like, It's basically White Wolf! White Wolf's gonna sue! I didn't think it was a real thing. Cause I'll make the World of Darkness jokes until the cow comes home, but I always appreciate somebody's like, new version of the whole Vampire Werewolf debacle.
Emily: So, White Wolf and author Nancy Collins filed suit against Sony Pictures, Screen Gems, and Lakeshore on, uh, in 2003 for copyright infringement after the theatrical release, alleging 17 counts of copyright infringement specifically, claiming, uh, over 70, not 17, 70 points of unique similarity between White Wolf's World of Darkness role playing games and Nancy A.
Emily: Collins short story, The [00:46:00] Love of Monsters, published in 1994 by White Wolf set in the world of darkness, where she claims the entire plot of Outerworld is based on. The, uh, the suit was settled out of court for an undisclosed amount, so.
Ben: So, uh, yeah! Does this movie Take from Vampire at the Masquerade so much so that they sued this movie and got a whole bunch of money to go away.
Emily: Also, I have to say, Vampire the Masquerade, the system, the World of Darkness world, has this really cool ideas in there, but there's a lot of appropriation, guys. A lot of those, like, 90s vampire books are, eee, yee, yee, There's a, there's, I mean, first of all, there's a whole vampire crew that are based off of the G slur.
Emily: So, you know, Thumbs up! Cringe! Okay, anyway, on with the Underworld.
Ben: Yeah, anyway, at Michael's apartment, uh, Selene gets more fight scenes and Lucien bites [00:47:00] Michael, and then Selene and Michael tr
Jeremy: There's one thing about this apartment, She's going through pictures, and she like, they make a big deal about her finding pictures of Michael. with a woman. Like, oh, she, he has a girlfriend. And that will never be addressed again. She will not show up. She is, as far as we know, dead
Ben: He's gone. Yeah. Oh, yeah.
Jeremy: They make a big point of showing it and then it doesn't matter.
Phoenix: he, I, he doesn't do anything in this movie, he doesn't emote, and so like him smiling in those photos, I didn't even realize it was the same character. Like, no,
Emily: light on his face. He's not wet. How do I
Phoenix: why isn't he wet and
Ben: Why isn't he blue?
Emily: Yeah, why isn't he wet, blue, and sad?
Phoenix: why isn't he blue?
Ben: Look, I know they say Tal dark and handsome, but I like him more like wet, sad, and blue.
Phoenix: What's sad and blue?
Emily: like literally blue, because I know that it also can mean sad, but,
Emily: you know, gotta be
Emily: blue.
Ben: [00:48:00] Then we
Emily: Basically, call me.
Ben: the craziest, arguably the craziest thing in this entire fucking movie, and that's Lucian's punch knives.
Phoenix: God, they're,
Jeremy: His fucking Assassin's Creed
Phoenix: those Assassin's Creed knives.
Ben: fucking like, he's like fucking like, forearm blades, like retractable
Emily: Every, you know, I'm glad that they didn't have any, like, last resort in the movie because I heard that song play every time those punch knives
Emily: came out
Emily: in my saying, it didn't need, like the new metal would have been overkill, like when, the movie already carries the spirit of it so much
Emily: like, last
Jeremy: it with Deadpool, it was stupid, but the werewolf does it and it's cool.
Emily: I mean,
Ben: Yes!
Phoenix: That's true. Yes.
Ben: yes,
Emily: levels.
Phoenix: hypocrisy is okay.
Ben: look, because much like Victor's Daughter, it's all about the execution.
Phoenix: So, so true.
Emily: That's too [00:49:00] soon. How dare. How dare we, we make light of this person that we barely knew about in the movie except for five seconds and then it turns out that, anyway, you, you do
Phoenix: was,
Emily: recap.
Jeremy: She comes pre refrigerated.
Phoenix: That's true.
Ben: Yeah.
Phoenix: What was their aversion to
Jeremy: been in a refrigerator for a hundred years by the time this movie starts.
Ben: We get to see more of her story in the third movie.
Phoenix: I don't know why they were, oh, really interesting. Like they, they really had like an allergy. To like, just doing it, just, this movie would have been so much better if they had a flashback of the events that were crucial to everyone's motivation at the beginning of the movie. Like,
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: And I would, I, it would have made, like, the first half of this movie is like white noise.
Phoenix: Like, I don't know what anyone's talking about, I don't know who any of these people are. And then, like, the last
Emily: two black characters. That's not entirely white.
Phoenix: that's
Phoenix: so, so true.
Ben: just get vampires and werewolves and we're [00:50:00] expected to just be like, and they're mortal enemies, because you know, they're
Phoenix: Why, why can't they kiss? What's wrong with that?
Phoenix: And then apparently the movie said it's not
Emily: what Lucian said.
Phoenix: Exactly.
Emily: Yeah, Lucian's
Phoenix: I was on the board for that. I was here for it.
Ben: I do like, I do love Evolution's plan, like, again, replace Scott Speedman with a wolf. It's like, okay, we can't make someone both a werewolf and a vampire, so new plan. We make a wolf a vampire.
Phoenix: That sounds so rad though. I'm down.
Emily: Yeah, and then it wouldn't have to be sexual, she could just like, drip the blood into its mouth to like, re fucking vitalize the wolf, just like she does with Bill Nighy and then,
Phoenix: used as a little doggie bowl of blood.
Emily: well, no, it's the wolf
Ben: cute, that'd be so cute.
Phoenix: It's so cute! Yes.
Ben: called Dogula for this movie? For this shit podcast? It has to [00:51:00] exist! I'm googling it now. Just Dogula movie. Is there a doula? No. Somehow nobody. Alright.
Emily: copyright, we're doing it right now, I'm gonna send it in the mail to myself. Dogula. Wait, wait,
Ben: Doula. Okay. Legitimately dis. I'm so disappointed in fucking Roger Corman right now.
Emily: wait, hold on.
Ben: Dog Dracula.
Emily: There is a a fashion,
Ben: d dr. There's Dracula's dog.
Emily: there is a fashion line called Dogula where it's a bunch of pictures of dogs and they're, like, edgy and spooky and, like, there's, it says, like, adopt of shop in big spooky gothic letters. So, never mind. I rescind my attempt to trademark.
Ben: Nah, fuck him. I'll take, I'll take him to court on that. I'll go for the bat for the movie rights.
Emily: Dogula, let's collaborate.
Emily: We got some writers here. We got some artists here.
Ben: I say we go dumber and just call it Dog Trac
Emily: We could do that as well, but [00:52:00] I'm still
Emily: open.
Ben: No
Phoenix: want, we don't want the legal team of Benicula to come for us. All right.
Emily: I don't think they can come up. This is a dog. It's very different.
Phoenix: That's true, but listen, there's a dog. The main character of Benicula is a dog, if I remember correctly.
Emily: Yes. Now, Bunnicula has bitten the dog. But this is not, but this is not a dog made by, because that's how werewolves came about. You see, is that a vampire accidentally bled on a dog and then the dog became a wereperson, right?
Phoenix: is reminding me of the like,
Ben: mean, I'm pretty sure
Emily: Where did Jeremy go, you guys?
Phoenix: good question.
Jeremy: still here.
Ben: I mean, I thought it was just people, oh, like, fucking Eastern European people in old and foresty days saw rabies and was like, That shit's crazy, they're probably a werewolf.
Phoenix: Probably
Emily: Yes.
Ben: That dude got bit by a wolf and now he's acting all wolfy.
Jeremy: Okay, I know this is a wild thought, but maybe Ben should finish talking about what happens in this movie.
Phoenix: sorry.
Emily: mean, Fogula [00:53:00] though.
Ben: we're at the, we were at the punch knives. Alright, moving on past the punch knives. But anyway, but Celine and Michael managed to get away, but it's okay 'cause Lucian bit him and got the blood sample. Also, when I said get away, I meant drive straight into the river. Scott Speedman save Celine because vampires can drown, I guess, and she's all like, I'm a killer. And you're a healer, and I'm in love now. I think that's what the movie's going for, I don't know. And I also don't care. But Selene brings him back to the Larp Mansion, which makes Craven just the most big mad. But he's a whiny little bitch, so fuck him, we're moving on. Anyway, Michael's forced to flee when the blonde vampire lady sees he's been bitten by a werewolf. And then he'll dick around for like 20 minutes before just coming back.
Emily: Erika is kind of the goat because she does the most vampire shit in the entire movie. Everyone
Ben: I love Erika.
Emily: yeah, I love her, but she also is the only one that like [00:54:00] flies. Like she's like, she gets scared and she fully like, just like a cat, just like flies on the ceiling and starts hissing. I don't know. Like she's in a Kids in the Halls sketch, like.
Ben: Well,
Phoenix: come she's the only one who does anything like that for their, like, vampire powers? What do vampires do that's different in this movie?
Emily: bite, bite people and
Emily: engineer blood.
Ben: Well, no, they don't bite people because they have, clone blood, they said,
Emily: Right, yeah, they're
Ben: and, And apparently based on, like, again, it being a big secret about Victor killing Selene's family apparently have not been killing humans for hundreds of years,
Phoenix: how nice?
Emily: We're not sure
Phoenix: mark. I don't know what the
Ben: or have not publicly been killing people for hundreds of years, or, you're not supposed to.
Emily: yeah.
Ben: like teen drinking, you're not supposed to, but everyone does it.
Emily: Yeah, they have a, they have like a dungeon downstairs with a lot, it's like a what we do in the shadow situation. Anyway,
Phoenix: I think it's, I'm sorry, just, just a quick comment. I like that they [00:55:00] removed, like, the vampires murdering people aspect. Like, see, these vampires aren't all that bad, but, like, everything else they do is, like, fucking horrifying. And so, like, just go kill people. Fuck it.
Ben: Yeah,
Emily: yeah,
Phoenix: vlog.
Jeremy: It's just a game preservation issue, not a moral thing. They're just like, if we, there's a lot of us, if we keep just killing humans all the time, we're gonna run out of humans.
Phoenix: This is true.
Ben: I mean what will what we really had to sand the edges off of like off of Celine a character who? Presumably supported the dread Scott decision anyway anyway Celine Celine's such a fucking daddy's girl, and she's like she doesn't bother going after Scott Speedman She's just like I must do a whole bad taboo and wake up like fucking Bill Nighy before He's supposed to be awakened. And god damn it, it's Bill Nye, he just He's so gooey, and he's so hammy.
Emily: Yes, love it.
Ben: Just big [00:56:00] gooey ham.
Emily: King.
Ben: they're like, if we find Scott Spielman, we'll have to kill him because he's a lycan. And then he comes back, and they just let Celine take him in a car. They just go for a drive. This movie, I don't know what the fuck's happening, but I sure do have a fun time.
Emily: It's delightful. Absolutely.
Ben: they bond, and they go to like, the safe house laboratory, and like, they start to bond, and then Selene's like, I love genocide and the thing you're turning into, and Michael's like, Damn, that's pretty fucked up.
Ben: And then Celine gives her whole backstory about Werewolf killing her family and Victor saving her and Michael's like damn That's pretty fucked up. I know it doesn't sound it, but I truly am capturing Scott Speedman's level of emotion in this scene.
Emily: I think you're capturing more emotion than, cause
Phoenix: Yeah, I
Emily: didn't even say shit. He was just like,
Phoenix: was like,
Emily: you know, like,
Phoenix: this place? Where am I? My head hurts.[00:57:00]
Emily: My tummy hurts.
Phoenix: My tummy hurts. I'm being really brave about it.
Ben: I'm gonna try to shoot this chain and be bad at it.
Phoenix: You're so bad at everything, I think.
Emily: part. That was the most character he had in the entire fucking
Ben: It really
Phoenix: the way he like tries to angle the gun like a, like a moron, like it was just like literally like the worst way you could be pointing that gun, like, I was like, what are you doing? Stop!
Ben: Oh, I love silly. It's like, Michael, I have to leave you in the safe, in the safe house laboratory so I can go and get yelled at by my dad and then get told to go to her room. And she does.
Phoenix: And she does
Ben: She's just like, well, I'm in timeout now, so I can't fight werewolves no more. again, she, as much as I love Kate Beckinsale, like again, watching this movie with my partner was two hours of us.
Ben: Just debating whether we want more to be her or be with her.
Emily: It.
Ben: Selene is, as badass as she is, a pretty weak character, all things considered.
Emily: [00:58:00] Absolutely. I mean, she, she run and shoot. She is video game protagonist.
Ben: Meanwhile,
Phoenix: have any like fun, like, she has cool flips, but like they never do anything fun with the choreography, like her friend hops on the wall like a frickin like spider creature, why can't she do something fun with that? And I feel like that's.
Emily: have powers?
Ben: I would love some more, like, equilibrium esque gunfo going down. Like, you got vampire powers and shit.
Emily: Vampires using their, many, many years of learning maths
Ben: Like, I just want people, like, I just want people, like, turning into, like, clouds of mist and then reforming shooting guns, like, through the air like John Woo.
Emily: That's beautiful. Why
Jeremy: likes to introduce stuff that sounds cool and then do nothing with it for the rest of the thing. Like, the one time somebody gets shot with the sunlight bullets happens in
Ben: They
Jeremy: five minutes of the movie and they, nobody, no vampire ever gets shot with a bullet for the rest of the movie.
Ben: Nope!
Phoenix: Like, the most insane thing [00:59:00] about this movie was that they told me UV bullets were a thing, and then the more insane thing was that they didn't use them anymore after that!
Ben: Yeah, there should have been, like, a werewolf, just, uh, chucking around, like, a minigun. Just firing, like, you, like, sunlight bullets out of a fucking minigun, just mowing down vampires.
Emily: Yeah, the werewolves did have, like, if anything, they sort of had the heavy artillery side of the, like, they were the heavies. Yeah. Whereas the, vampires were all like precision shooters and stuff and there were, there weren't very, there
Ben: And a whip guy! Ooooooooh,
Emily: blade or shoot small gun with too many bullets.
Ben: guy! Anyway, Craven's like, I'm gonna be evil and betray you and help the werewolves kill this super hot vampire elder who has just the fuckin sickest look, but has no lines. And then the werewolves do that. Uh, R. I. P. Amelia, you, you were too much a baddie for this world.
Emily: Yeah, she was too, she was too [01:00:00] powerful.
Phoenix: She
Phoenix: was.
Ben: next, Scott Steven rages out to Nu Metal for a few minutes.
Jeremy: Rages.
Ben: That's all the context I'm giving. Um, eventually everyone reveals Lucian's plan to everyone else through very convenient simultaneous exposition dumps. He wants to create a werewolf vampire hybrid as a fuck you to Victor cause Lucian and Victor's daughter got married and got pregnant and then Victor killed his own daughter and made Lucian watch.
Ben: And Michael's like, damn, that's pretty fucked up. Also Michael's from the super special bloodline that means he can become a hybrid instead of dying. I wish they'd shown us. I wish we'd gone to see someone get, like, get double infected and then just fuckin explode.
Emily: Yeah,
Phoenix: that it was, like, strategically, like, a really, like, that should be, like, the final thing you do as a werewolf or vampire if you're dying in a battle, just, like, bite the other person. And then they're like, oh, shit. Mm hmm. Like that's, that's what you should do.
Ben: Yep. Honestly, if you're a werewolf, biting should be, like, your [01:01:00] first go to.
Phoenix: start biting everything. I don't know.
Emily: werewolves do bite, like, when the werewolf, when the Kreenos, to pick up the term, when the Kreenos werewolves, like, bought, when they bought, they bit,
Phoenix: And they patch this.
Emily: they used their mouth at the thing, they did, like, just chop those vampires straight in half in pieces, and, you know, they cut their lives into pieces. This was their last resort. Again, implied.
Ben: Yeah, alright, and now we get to the last 30 minutes of the movie, which is Non stop vampire on werewolf violence. Craven kills Lucien for real this time, with special silver gusher bullets. Selene kills everyone she can see. Silver whips. Victor kills the number two werewolf, who I haven't mentioned in this recap until now.
Ben: Craven shoots more gushers at Michael. Victor killed Selene's family. So it's a lot. It's a lot happening. Anyway, this is about the part of the [01:02:00] movie where Craven just
Emily: yeah,
Ben: Like, everything would let you think that a movie that, like, this asshole as a character would get, like, the most epic of comeuppances. But, uh, no! He just fucks off!
Phoenix: The one thing that was firmly established about him is that he knows where the door is and he is willing to take it. All right, that's, very, very opinionated about that. True.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: good outside.
Phoenix: Hey, Craven is good out here. Absolutely.
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: Oh man.
Emily: keep doing your thing. I'm just gonna fuck off.
Phoenix: He is not
Jeremy: real, some real taco from tv energy.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: it's it's honestly fucking hilarious even Victor's like where the fuck did he go?
Phoenix: I like that pan over, like I literally laughed out loud when they panned over the door and he wasn't there anymore and I was like, oh shit, my boy
Emily: And there was like the musical sting, like it was like a surprise, but it was a surprise because it, I [01:03:00] forgot that there was somebody else there the whole time. And then we reminded that there was, but then now he's gone.
Ben: Can we
Phoenix: Craven I thought I was waiting for someone to come out of the door, as opposed to the fact that he wasn't there.
Ben: we just appreciate that Craven's absolute best moment in the whole movie is when he's not on screen
Phoenix: So true.
Emily: God.
Phoenix: of presence.
Ben: A real one to the end.
Jeremy: he's so good at not being there.
Ben: funny. Anyway, Victor shows up, and instead of being like, Nah, Craven's a lying piece of shit, don't listen to him, He's like, yeah, I absolutely killed your family, what about it? And then we get, Blue Man vs. British Man, And Bill Nighy just fuckin owns, because after A whole movie of hyping up how nothing is stronger than the hybrid.
Ben: Turns out Bill Nighy is stronger than the hybrid.
Emily: Well, he's Bill
Jeremy: he's new at this.
Phoenix: That's true, he just
Phoenix: got here. He doesn't even know what's going on and his tummy hurts.
Ben: He may be blue, but he's also
Jeremy: apparently, [01:04:00] uh, apparently during the course of this build I did actually give Scott Speedman a concussion because a piece of the wall he went through wasn't quite as light as it should have been.
Ben: Amazing. That's just Bill Nighy being a fucking badass.
Phoenix: True. That was just his strength.
Ben: but then Selene just finds a sword. I think Victor brought that sword
Emily: That was Victor's sword that he killed Lucian with.
Ben: Yes, he killed the number two werewolf.
Emily: Or, yeah.
Ben: But, um, yeah, so, she finds Victor's weakness sword to the head, we straight up get the anime, like, she's not even aware, like, he's not even aware that he's been cut, it's like some real fucking future trunk shit, uh, and then his face falls off, it's pretty great also what happens to the villain in equilibrium, which is pretty funny now that I think about it, right?
Ben: Like, what was up with the 2000s and faces getting cut off?
Emily: Anime.
Ben: Also happens in Transformers 2, Revenge of the [01:05:00] Fallen, but don't watch that, that's a bad movie.
Emily: that is, that is one thing that we can thank the Wachowskis for, like, with, I mean, we can thank them for a lot of things, but as much as we talk about the Matrix with this movie, where we should be talking about Blade the Wachowskis did make anime cool, like, they fully, they did, they, it's them, and they deserve the credit, like, here, in America, like, cause all of us, like, little baby weebs, before weeb was a word, And we're like, we're going to go to the animation section of the Hollywood video.
Emily: And the, then the Matrix came out and the Wachowskis like barreled the camera and they're like, yeah, we based it off anime. You basically just watch anime and loved it. Fuck you. And I was like, yeah, it's very emotional. It's very emotional to me. And then they made Speed Racer. That was a good anime movie and nobody can tell me different. It's very emotional.
Ben: Uh, No, no, I feel like the tide has definitely turned in regards to Speed [01:06:00] Racer. Like, I feel like Speed Racer is now, like, the consensus is that Speed Racer is a good movie.
Emily: well, better be because it's true. That's the right opinion
Ben: All the discourse I see around Speed Racer, like, again, I was there when it came out, I know it was beyond panned. But all of the modern day discourse I see around Speed Racer is very positive. I have.
Emily: yeah, because we've gotten over ourselves and the Wachowskis helped us. Thank you.
Jeremy: Yeah, trans kids love the Speed Racer.
Emily: Yeah.
Ben: Yes.
Jeremy: Okay, Emily, all these soundtrack bits are done by Danny Lohner as Renholder,
Emily: yes,
Jeremy: with additional vocals by Amy Lee,
Emily: yes,
Jeremy: who will shortly then go on to be will be in the Daredevil soundtrack I was referencing. Where, uh, Evanescence will take off from, so, like, she is sitting here semi uncredited in these, just sort of, [01:07:00] I guess, making goth noises in the background of these tracks.
Emily: Yeah, and Danny Lohner, Brent Holder, is the long time back, like, he was, he was a member of Nine Inch Nails. and I know that Trent Reznor did a little stuff with Pushifer, which is the other perfect circle adjacent thing that Maynard Keenan was doing with Danny Leonard and Charlie Clouser.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: And
Jeremy: actually is on this as well, so.
Emily: yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: 2220.
Emily: yes so there was this, this interesting divergence there. Where we still had like some kind of, it still felt kind of indie like alternative as opposed to the last resort situation. And like, I know Tool was really popular, but Tool's really good, so shut up. The end.
Jeremy: Steve just went, Yeah! Tool is his shit.
Emily: I love
Phoenix: It's his shed.
Jeremy: shit. That's his shit.
Phoenix: know, I know, but I just, the pun was right there.
Emily: was good. That [01:08:00] was good.
Phoenix: It was right there.
Emily: Is this movie feminist?
Phoenix: No.
Ben: No, uh, I mean, it gives us goth action genocide Barbie.
Emily: Yeah, um,
Ben: it gives me a character awakened to all of the things, but other than that, I don't, I don't think that counts as feminist.
Emily: I mean,
Jeremy: He is a like, giant fucking quotation marks, strong female character.
Emily: salute,
Jeremy: In the like, in the worst possible terms.
Emily: yeah,
Ben: good at violence.
Emily: good at violence, yes, like, Strong implies emotional development that Selene does not have.
Emily: yeah, like, strong, when we talk about what people call a strong female character, which is a physically able, You know, a woman
Jeremy: in this case, a strong female, but not a
Ben: she can gun, she can gu We didn't even talk about when she just shot a perfect circle into the ground to then
Ben: fall, like multiple like,
Phoenix: A perfect circle.
Ben: AAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH I see [01:09:00] what
Emily: Bastard Stampede did that first, so.
Ben: anime pretty sure. I'm sure. I don't know if he did it first, actually. But in Trigon, he did do that, and he did it
Phoenix: did it best. First.
Emily: He did do it bus. Because that was Trigon 98.
Phoenix: Hell yeah.
Emily: Anyway. Um, yeah.
Jeremy: such a strong female character that they, in fact, give her, like, small, cute, automatic pistols. Like, she doesn't even carry big now everyone else It's crazy in the last scene where she's with like the vampire squads, where like, they're all Carrying just straight up like M4s and assault rifles. And she's just like Lara Crofting it with like, pew pew pew pew.
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: like because there already is a Mary Sue in this movie, I definitely would not call, like, qualify her. Like, it's obviously the guy. It's the werewolf guy hybrid man. Like, that is a Mary Sue off screen doing a whole story elsewhere that we are not privy to apparently.
Ben: I mean
Phoenix: for her,
Ben: there's a scene he [01:10:00] has where Kate Beckins oh I'm sorry.
Phoenix: that's all good.
Ben: Okay. Uh, there's a scene where Kate Beckinsale just grabs him by the neck, lifts him up, and pins him against the wall. And I've been like, damn, I wanna be that self insert character.
Phoenix: No, for real. Um, Like,
Emily: Kate Beck and Sale Times Reader. And
Phoenix: Selene has like, there are aspects that could be more of a character, but I'm not gonna lie, when like, she started going off on her backstory about her family dying, like, it started getting comical, where she was like, Father was out there, and then mother, and then my sister, and then my cousins.
Phoenix: And I was like, are you gonna keep going?
Ben: I,
Ben: you know what, I, I wanted, I wanted to
Emily: My dog!
Ben: And, Grandma.
Phoenix: Grandma
Ben: and Uncle John.
Phoenix: and weird Bob from next door. And
Jeremy: Like Goldfish Cody? Eaten by the cat. choked on the goldfish. Men in tights.
Phoenix: she had stuff that was like, it could have been interesting. Like, I kind of liked the idea of her, like, relationship [01:11:00] with you know, vampire lord guy. Uh, it was like this weird familial relationship. There was a lot of, the aspects were all there. The pieces were there. The script was not following.
Ben: it is this sense where it's like, yeah, it's like her being like, oh, I've been betrayed by my father figure, now I kill my father figure, is like, three minutes?
Emily: Yeah. Yeah.
Ben: it's like, what we get in the movie is mostly like, the first time she runs into any kind of true quandary or dilemma, her only thought is like, I'm gonna go get my dad to tell me what to do.
Emily: Yeah,
Emily: And between her and Erika, like, I think,
Ben: Erika, whose only motivation is, she wants to be with Kraven?
Phoenix: it's really sad for
Ben: Oh, girl.
Emily: hope that by the end, instead of wanting to be with Kraven, she hopes they both fuck up and then she can be queen, like, by herself.
Phoenix: that'd be cool.
Ben: Yeah,
Emily: I, I am a fan of Erika. Like, her, I wish she [01:12:00] was in it more, but she, there's no, like, even though they don't mention dudes names, like, all of their interactions revolve around those dudes.
Emily: So, Bechdel test failed. Um, But, uh, them girlbossing together and Erika's being like, I want you to fuck up, but you really want this, so, you know, your aspirations and my aspirations are aligning. that was a good bit. I really liked that.
Jeremy: I'd like to think that Erika's isn't about Kraven so much as like the position
Emily: yes. Yeah, she wants to be in the position.
Phoenix: a puppet like leader, let's be honest. Like, she just wants to be the one pulling the strings.
Emily: Oh, yeah, she, she's the thirsty girl and she's like, ooh, oh, this is nice. You know, like, absolutely. And she's like, She would totally fucking wreck shop as the vampire queen. Like, she'd come in, she would, like, make sure vampires have good food, and then she'd, like, broke her peace with the werewolves and kill the Nazi one and be like, Hey, werewolves, [01:13:00] if you've been on 4chan, come to my house tonight.
Emily: And then all of those werewolves died.
Phoenix: Those ones are gone.
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: There we go. She sends the invite on 4chan so
Emily: Yeah, she's, she, she like, she is that clever. She does go and like, basically lurk around the shitty like social medias and finds all the werewolves and vampires and is like, come over to my house. And then, of course, they'd be like, no way.
Emily: And then she'd kill them. And like, they would all bathe in their blood and have like a beach party with their blood.
Phoenix: And then a wolf can drink blood out of a skull, like I was saying earlier. It's
Phoenix: very
Emily: then she can create the hybrid, the most ultimate being, by giving a wolf the blood of all these assholes and then because it's in a wolf and all dogs go to heaven, then their bad vibes will be sublimated into a heroic werewolf.
Phoenix: We all know the deep lore that all dogs do in fact go to [01:14:00] heaven. They have radiant damage. All dogs.
Emily: That's why wolves, that's why werewolves are so effective against vampires.
Phoenix: Oh shit.
Emily: Vampires No!
Ben: Oh, we can't put that.
Jeremy: There's a reason I'm not saying it out loud.
Emily: Yeah, thank you. I really appreciate it. Y'all's writing talents are really good. anyway, so this movie is not feminist.
Ben: No, this movie is not feminist.
Ben: I mean,
Ben: the only thing that's queer about it Yeah, again, the only things queer about it are the feelings I had watching it.
Emily: there are vampires in it, therefore there's some queer, there's some queerness somewhere in there because there's no such thing
Jeremy: These are the most no homo vampires
Ben: They
Phoenix: pretty, yeah. They're like, I'm, this is like the one house of vampires on earth, like, left that's like, but I'm not gay. Like, they're all just like, they're all here at this house.
Ben: The gays do not claim Craven.
Phoenix: They do not, we do not claim him.
Emily: and [01:15:00] I think, I'm
Jeremy: mean, they may take a lot of stuff from White Wolf, but the only thing that they take from Interview with a Vampire is the little sun iris thing that they use to kill the vampire.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: Like, they have zero interest in that sort of queerness. They're just like, oh, no.
Emily: yeah, which is
Phoenix: just thought that, uh, yeah, they were just really, really good friends.
Jeremy: Also, this is a world where vampires absolutely can have babies. That
Emily: That's true. That's right. Well, maybe you need it, like, you need a werewolf or like some other, you
Ben: That was also the case in Blade, where there was a schism between those who were born vampires and those who were turned vampires. It didn't really go anywhere, but it was, there.
Phoenix: It was present.
Emily: I don't,
Jeremy: this movie loves to be like, what is the one thing that you know about a thing? Well, that's not true. Like, what is the one thing you know about vampires? Oh, they're undead, you know, returned from humans. No, not true. What's the one thing [01:16:00] you know about werewolves? Oh, they, uh, change when the moon comes out.
Jeremy: That's not
Phoenix: they don't.
Jeremy: not in this one. What's the one thing we just told you about Lucian that you absolutely know about Lucian? Oh, he's dead. He died a few hundred years ago. No, it's not true. be in the next scene. That's the one thing we've established from the beginning. it's like a Christmas carol, but if like Marley walked in perfectly alive and fine in the next scene. They're like, Marley was dead. Actually, here he is. He's okay. He's not a ghost. Just visiting.
Emily: Yeah, is like, this movie is like, there's been a war. And it's been going on for all this time, but like, Lucian was the leader, and he died. He's the leader of the werewolves, he's dead, werewolves are dying out.
Jeremy: And then five minutes later, they're like, Actually, Lucian not dead, werewolves not dying out. None of this was true.
Emily: werewolves so many that they're like killing each other for fun. And then, like Lucien is alive, and then, yeah.
Ben: mean, there's something a little gay about the werewolves in, like, a [01:17:00] fight club kind of way, especially with the, like, Look, there's no lady werewolves, we're just gonna get big, muscly, and hairy, and just get sweaty and dirty and roll around with each other all day for fun.
Emily: That's what I'm saying. They're the, they're the characters with the most chemistry in the whole movie,
Emily: except for maybe the actual chemistry set
Ben: Yeah, fucking werewolf mangal and a science set have the most, like, just raw chemistry.
Emily: that, I mean, he, that character, that guy other, like in terms of character acting, like I
Emily: was expecting a lot more character acting from an anyone else other than like Michael Sheena, bill Knight. But that dude was really carrying it. He was like, I am Survivor.
Ben: That dude understood the assignment.
Ben: That dude was like, hold on, I'm a playing a werewolf mad scientist? Yeah, I got this.
Emily: Yeah.
Phoenix: no more.
Emily: With his little himler glasses and
Jeremy: he's the Frau Brüger of this, of this movie.
Emily: Yeah, yeah,
Ben: Now,
Jeremy: else understands the assignment, but [01:18:00] he knows.
Ben: oh yeah. Does this movie have anything to say about race? Oh boy. Oh. Pass.
Emily: um,
Emily: yeah, I mean, I do wish, as, like, basic as it is, it would have been cool to see, like, the deep voice guy werewolf, like, kill the shit out of the whip having vampire, but we don't even get to see the death, we just have a cutaway. Like dude gets all slashed and shit and I would just love to like, just like, like the end of American Werewolf, like all those American Werewolf movies where they like eat the heart of the other werewolf, like I wanted to see him like break him in half and like scoop out his heart and then eat it while like the vampire was like trying to regenerate there and watching this dude like eat his heart while he's like flipping him off.
Emily: Like, that would have been so good, and it didn't happen, and that, you know, and then I think that character was killed too, like, the big, the big guy.
Phoenix: think so. It's hard to tell when they're a werewolf, because they all kind of just like look like werewolf.
Emily: Yeah, he was, he was, like, werewolfed [01:19:00] out
Phoenix: Yes.
Emily: point.
Jeremy: anybody can write him into the next movie, it's him, because he co wrote the movie.
Phoenix: There we go.
Emily: God, that, but seriously though, that guy being, like, that guy writing that movie and being in that movie, like, that dude's a fuckin triple threat.
Ben: Oh, what a, what a fucking boss.
Emily: yeah, that dude's like a fuckin logarithmic threat.
Emily: Man, his voice though.
Emily: Like, he should get money. I hope he does voice acting because like, for real. Anyway
Phoenix: I guess my two cents on the issue is like, literally, this whole movie, like, if two tiny things had not been present, it would have been like, I would have said it was a lot more like less bad on this front. But like, literally just get rid of the weird like Nazi doctor who works for werewolves
Ben: Yep.
Phoenix: to help question mark the werewolves because like, I wanted to be emotionally invested when like Lucien was like, looking at the love between this werewolf and vampire.
Phoenix: He was like, [01:20:00] Oh my god, it was just like me for real. Like, you know, like, I was like, I could see what they were trying to do. But like that I remember. That he has a fucking Nazi doctor with him and then like, the fact that like Celine is not interested in like the whole movie is not interested in, in like examining the ideas that they are bringing up.
Phoenix: They have no, they don't want to touch it. They're like, wow. I so glad this cute boy is here. Like that's the
Ben: you're so right. Like, it, it really is just cute boy. It really does go into absolute, it spends no time exploring or going, my life is a lie and I've been killing innocent people.
Phoenix: Zero, like it's off screen where she's blacking out for 20 minutes while her boyfriend fights her dad. And then she, just, Katana runs through him and that's the movie. And that's the whole, that's the
Phoenix: movie.
Ben: pretty much this movie is 10 tips for dating my vampire daughter.
Phoenix: Yes, that's, uh,
Phoenix: yes.
Emily: guess. [01:21:00] Yeah. Don't be a werewolf or kill your dad.
Ben: this movie, I guess, kind of deals with. Class. I mean, it's like, there's like elements of like, again, like the vampires are very rich, and the werewolves live in like the sewers, and they were like the slaves, and vampires are the masters, but like, it's there, but it's all, I don't know what to say, or what it's saying beyond just like, slavery bad.
Emily: Slavery is bad. However, sometimes slaves have
Phoenix: Fucking Lucien, I swear. I loved being a slave! Shut
Emily: That's right. That's right. He's like, I didn't even mind. I just got to bang a werewolf
Phoenix: was like,
Emily: or I mean a
Phoenix: And I'm like, yeah, what?
Emily: Yeah. He
Phoenix: so like,
Ben: I loved being in a reverse Thomas Jefferson situation.
Phoenix: so great. Fuckin this movie. Yeah, like even shit like that where it's like, is it even saying slavery bad? I would say it's uninterested with examining the idea.
Emily: God. Yeah. Like
Jeremy: I still just, like, [01:22:00] the half an hour of Selene continuing to shoot every werewolf in sight after she learns that, like, oh, actually, I'm, actually, we're the bad guys is
Emily: we're the baddies.
Phoenix: But the baddies. No, it's weird too, because she does that and like, it might have been okay if she thought that Craven was lying. And then like, the guy was like, no, yeah, yeah, he was totally lying or whatever.
Ben: she believes Craven unquestionably.
Phoenix: just like, oh yeah, why would this liar ever lie to me?
Emily: God. And I mean, I feel like if they had her react other than shoot, like they would have to write a different Character trait for her. So, that's probably why she didn't do anything but shoot, cause she's like, the only thing she knows how to do is shoot. She doesn't have any other, like, options. The buttons don't do anything else, like, cry,
Phoenix: Self shoot.
Emily: meditate, or, you know,
Emily: consider.
Phoenix: Concern. Erland.
Emily: Dead by Daylight, shoot! [01:23:00] Yeah!
Phoenix: just vlog. Literally
Phoenix: anything else.
Emily: save the fucking game, it's just shoot.
Phoenix: Just shoot. That's it. Always moving forward. Well, she unlocked the new button, Slice.
Emily: that's right. She did unlock slice by the end of the
Phoenix: that's exciting, character development.
Emily: Yeah, there we go.
Jeremy: Oh, God.
Emily: Mental health, physical disability, nothing is said. nothing. nothing. But,
Emily: make medical stuff scary. I mean, the main guy is a nurse, but
Jeremy: It really is all about class, honestly, though.
Emily: I mean, it is about class.
Jeremy: werewolves being solo class, they're literally underground, and
Emily: underworld, you might say.
Phoenix: Underworld.
Ben: I mean, that is the main thing, is class. It's just I mean, there's nothing, it's there, but what does it say beyond, werewolves fighting vampires sure is cool.
Phoenix: Yeah.
Emily: I mean, classism is bad, but sometimes the downtrodden have to [01:24:00] hire a Nazi scientist because they have no other option. It's very confusing to me. It's very confusing messaging. And like, I don't, I, like the weird German coded shit with a lot of the werewolves. I'm like, I
Jeremy: Like, so, that actor that plays what is his name in this? Um,
Emily: know. He has a name. He's
Jeremy: not, oh, he has a name. He has a mononym, uh,
Jeremy: singe. singe. He's played by Erwin Lader, who is in fact German, who is literally in Das Boot. Like, he's actually a real actor. Uh, not that, I mean, wildly, this movie is full of real actors.
Jeremy: You know,
Phoenix: true,
Ben: Yeah, more actors than it honestly has any right having.
Emily: Hey guys, you know who else is German? Uwe Boll.
Ben: Now that's 2000s.
Emily: I'm just saying, like, we were all thinking about BloodRayne, and now I brought it
Ben: I, I, I was definitely trying [01:25:00] not to.
Emily: Yeah,
Jeremy: my favorite piece of trivia about this? movie is that Kevin Greview, who created this, is Deep Voice Werewolf and also is a writer of Marvel Comics tried to pitch to Marvel Comics doing a crossover between Underworld and Blade, and Marvel Comics was like, eh, we might want to do more stuff with Blade, so no.
Jeremy: And like, the idea of there being a Blade Underworld crossover is so
Jeremy: wild.
Ben: That would have been a delightful comic.
Emily: I think it would be a delightful comic. I think it would, but the way that it would work, just in terms of like, I think worlds, I think just Blade would absorb underworlds. Like, Blade would just be like, oh, and, oh, this, by the way, Underworld is, also Blade. this is just a different town, having different problems, where there was no Blade to, like, keep things in check, And this is what happens when vampires overrun, when there's no Blade, is the vampires start, like, killing werewolves and, and, like, being bored.
Phoenix: And [01:26:00] lounging around in their finest confused era clothing,
Emily: yes. And smoking opiate?
Phoenix: blood opium, I don't know how it works as a vampire.
Emily: they were vaping. I don't know. If they could vape, they would.
Phoenix: they would.
Ben: drug blood, like in what we do in the shadows.
Emily: Yeah, it's dry blood,
Phoenix: Hell yeah.
Emily: that is funny how the Das Boot guy, like his accent, somehow resembled Nandor the Relentless, even though they were completely different accents. There is still like, I don't know, maybe it's that just, I'm a fun weird thing accent. We're both going for her.
Emily: Anyway do we have anything else? Any other
Ben: No, do we, uh, do we recommend this movie?
Emily: Fuck yes!
Ben: Right? Right? How much fun was this?
Emily: The movie is so dumb and so
Emily: fun.
Emily: it's all carbohydrates. It's like basically like shrimp chips the movie.
Ben: Oh, this is like, this is a trip to the mall. This is spending [01:27:00] all of your, this movie is going to the mall and spending all your money on Hot Topic and Cinnabon.
Emily: Yeah. Hell yeah. And
Ben: And it's equally nutritious. Yeah.
Emily: I think that's how we decided that Kate Beckinsale got that leather outfit. Is that she, she went to Hot Topic, but then, what was it? She got gaseous damage on all of her pores, and then when all of her pores started to
Phoenix: Oh
Emily: it like,
Phoenix: It just,
Emily: merged with the leather, so her like, default skin is leather.
Phoenix: that's why that, that one moment where like, um, her friend is picking out the dress for her to wear and it's like literally transparent. I'm like, does she put it over the leather?
Emily: yes,
Phoenix: Like can it, it,
Emily: the leather.
Phoenix: it's not allowed to come off. Like you have to wear the leather bodysuit and then accessorize.
Emily: Yeah, she's, and like, she is made to be rendered in polygons.
Phoenix: It's true.
Emily: For So true. I, So, would y'all recommend the movie? Bye!
Ben: Yeah.
Phoenix: would. [01:28:00] I, I do think the first half of this movie is, is a rough one because it's, it makes very little sense and you kind of just have to enjoy the flips and stuff and the kicks. Um, but then the second half I was really getting into it.
Jeremy: I mean, it's whatever. Like, I wouldn't recommend it to somebody just off the cuff. I wouldn't be like, you know what you should watch, Underworld.
Ben: No, no, this is, this is for a special, a special kind of person.
Emily: so
Jeremy: Yeah, but it's like, you know, if you have, if you have for some reason an excess of like Cheetos and weed in your house that you just have to get rid of.
Ben: You know I al You know I always have an excess of both of those things in my house.
Emily: exactly. That's perfect.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's like, you don't want to think too hard.
Phoenix: so true.
Emily: this is a better movie to watch, like in terms of 2000s entertainment. I would definitely recommend watching this over any 2000s American made comedy.[01:29:00]
Phoenix: Yeah. Yeah.
Emily: the 2000s was a rough time for American dramedies. Unless they were like directed by Steven Soderbergh or whatever, uh,
Ben: about Anchorman?
Emily: Wes Anderson.
Jeremy: Would you qualify Anchorman as a dramedy?
Phoenix: So
Ben: Yes.
Emily: He was in A Glass Case of Emotion. That's drama right there.
Ben: thought I thought Emily said comedy, and now I'm too deep into it, so I'm just gonna power through and stick
Emily: Commit. I'm com I'm fully committing.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, I,
Ben: a story of a man's downfall and his triumphant redemption.
Emily: I thought that was Talladega Nights.
Phoenix: It's all of them.
Ben: I mean, yeah, it's, it's, yeah,
Phoenix: He's been playing the same character for a while, the 2000s.
Ben: I mean, yeah,
Emily: Although he did do Stranger Than Fiction in 2000s. Will Ferrell did Stranger Than Fiction. It is a quote unquote dramedy, but it is a very, very good movie actually.
Ben: gonna lie, I'm pretty afraid to find out how old school is aged.
Jeremy: Old Skool was already pretty bad when it came [01:30:00] out, like,
Emily: You were saying?
Jeremy: I feel like I cannot in good conscience recommend Underworld, um, I mean, it fucking is what it is. It's a movie that defies explanation in a lot of ways. It's like, how did you end up with this particular cast of people? Like, how did you, how did this get made? That's a good name for a podcast.
Jeremy: Um, it's so wild. I can't imagine, honestly, sitting down to want to watch a movie like this and not choosing the Matrix instead. Like if I want this, but better, I mean, I could somehow put it on the matrix and blade at the same time, you know,
Jeremy: like,
Ben: Yeah, there it is. Okay. Again, this movie is definitely not as good as Blade or Matrix. Those are two much better movies, but I do, I do love Underworld
Emily: I also love underworld. And if we love underworld, what would you recommend?
Ben: Blade and The Matrix.
Emily: and the Matrix. Phoenix. I know you have one.
Phoenix: yeah, no, I've been holding [01:31:00] you guys have been like, Oh, but what can we watch instead of this movie if you feel weird about the Nazi scientist or the weird undertones van Helsing is right the fuck there. All right.
Jeremy: and sailing it
Ben: I'm, I'm actually gonna give a similar recommendation. Hunts and Gretel Witch Hunters.
Phoenix: I got that movie.
Ben: That's a fun one. That's one we should cover at some point. It is fun.
Phoenix: that movie is such a good time.
Emily: said that Terry Gilliam
Emily: didn't Terry Gilliam do that?
Ben: I be, I believe so.
Jeremy: I'm going to go a different direction. I'm going to recommend the TV show staged which does feature Michael Sheen as one of the two main characters, along with David Tennant, as they deal with. The fact that they're both supposed to be doing a play together when, uh, COVID happens. And so they decide that they're going to rehearse and run lines over Zoom while their lives are falling apart.
Jeremy: So it's like a very time specific show [01:32:00] that, like, literally both of them were supposed to be doing other things and those things got cancelled. So they were like, what if we made a tv show that was us as us having nervous breakdowns over the internet as as all this was going on. So like it's the first season is that and then the second season is like gets picked up to do an American adaptation of it, and they're trying to, like, weasel their way into playing themselves in the American adaptation, while, like, they're, like, the American company that's bought it is literally trying to find anybody else to do it. Um, so, you know, they get to throw in a bunch of different guest stars. At one point, you know, Samuel L. Jackson is supposed to play David Tennant's part, and
Emily: Incredible.
Jeremy: piece of, like, meta fiction commentary that also, like, leans very hard into the, pandemic years of, of insanity.
Emily: I didn't know that that was actually a show. I [01:33:00] saw, I've seen clips of it and I thought it was just like a interview that they did, but that's awesome. I didn't know that it was actually, is that available anywhere?
Jeremy: At the time, it was on By the time it was coming out, I want to say it was on Hulu or something. It looks like now it's maybe on Britbox. It looks like it's probably available to buy or rent on Amazon. I'm not sure where else, but yes there's three seasons of it. I don't actually think I've seen the third season if it's come out yet.
Jeremy: The first two seasons without a doubt I love, because it's, it's just, Actors being themselves and being, you know, slightly elevated versions of themselves. Okay. So yeah, the third season came out in 2022.
Emily: Nice.
Jeremy: yeah. Yeah. Fantastic show. Check it out.
Emily: I recommend anime. Let's watch. We recently reviewed, released episode that we reviewed last year of, uh, Vampire Hunter D. Bloodlust. That's a good one. And then one of my [01:34:00] recommendations is go on YouTube and find the BDGs, HeBeBGs, where Brian David Gilbert does his covers of the BGs as a vampire and a werewolf respectively.
Emily: Um, and he does, uh, Stand Alive as a vampire, and he is really rocking the Michael Sheen look. In that so if you want, like, what, what Underworld should have been, which was just Michael Sheen as a vampire, werewolf, whatever he was, strutting around to the Bee Gees, this is that. This is what Underworld, like, this is the Underworld that we want.
Emily: Um,
Phoenix: have been asking for.
Emily: this is the Underworld that people have been asking for it's not two hours long, it's just a couple of videos, but they're really fun and yeah.
Emily: There's so many other things. There's so many things out there. There's Blade, there's What We Do in the Shadows, there's a lot of vampire stuff out there. But I think that this is a fun movie, that Underworld is a fun movie to watch. especially if you're going to look up that Key and Peele sketch about the vampire guy.
Emily: I don't, I can't remember the name of that sketch. [01:35:00] But just look up Key and Peele, vampire. And then, send them love. And remind Jordan Peele and Keegan Michael Key that they're, they're important. Not that they don't know, but I
Ben: alrighty. do we want to wrap it up? do the, do the pluggy plugs?
Emily: yeah,
Phoenix: Oh yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah. Uh, Phoenix, would you like to tell people where they can find out more about what you do online or
Jeremy: you want people to find you on?
Phoenix: I do not want to be found. I do not want to be spoken to. Uh, no, um, I have an Instagram, uh, at hearthfire2. I draw arts various medias, sometimes my own medias, uh, and on Tapas, which is a webcomic place, I have two webcomics that, uh, you know, people could check out if they want called Rising Tides and My Champion, respectively.
Jeremy: Awesome. And, uh, Ben, let people know what's going on with you.
Ben: Yeah, BenKahnComics. com. Find me on the black hole that is Twitter at BenTheKahn. BenKahnComics everywhere else. And make sure to [01:36:00] check out cool stuff like, uh, Captain Lazerhawk manga out now.
Emily: and I'm megamoth. net. Just go on there and find me, mega underscore moth on Instagram, megamothbluesky, and Patreon, which is where I post most things. And maybe Tumblr too, but, I mean, if you want.
Jeremy: Fantastic. Yeah, so, uh, right now you can find my, uh, new my new graphic novel, The Cold Ever After, in stores. it's queer, it's noir, it's fantasy, uh, it's a little bit of everything, everything you could possibly want and some things you probably don't. Uh, you can find me online on Instagram or Twitter at jro58@jeremywhitley.com or on Tumblr or Blue Sky is Jeremy Whitley.
Jeremy: So do that and, uh, check out the podcast at progressively horrified on our website@progressivelyhorrifiedtransistor.fm. And on Twitter at Prague Horror Pod. We'd love to hear [01:37:00] from you, and of course, speaking of loving to hear from you, we would love it if you would rate and review this podcast wherever you are listening.
Jeremy: It helps us find new listeners, and then we get to make more stuff. thanks again to Phoenix for joining us. It was a ball.
Emily: This wasn't
Phoenix: you guys for having me on! It was a lot of fun!
Emily: Yes.
Ben: was a blast.
Jeremy: This is what I feel like we've been talking about since the beginning.
Ben: Oh, yes, this has been uh, this was worth the wait. This was so, oh my god, this was fun.
Jeremy: Yes, absolutely. Well, and until next time, everyone, stay horrified.